Podcast: How video games train AI to be told for itself

From chess to Jeopardy to e-sports, AI is increasingly more beating people at their very own video games. However that was once by no means without equal purpose. On this episode we dig into the symbiotic dating between video games and AI. We meet the massive gamers within the house, and we take a travel to an arcade.

We Meet: 

  • Julian Togelius, Affiliate Professor, Division of Pc Science and Engineering, New York College
  • Will Douglas-Heaven, Senior Editor for AI, MIT Era Evaluate
  • David Silver, Primary Analysis Scientist at DeepMind, Professor at College Faculty London.
  • David Fahri, Lead Researcher, Open A-I

We Talked To: 

  • Karen Hao, Senior Editor for AI, MIT Era Evaluate 
  • Julian Togelius, Affiliate Professor, Division of Pc Science and Engineering, New York College
  • Will Douglas-Heaven, Senior Editor for AI, MIT Era Evaluate
  • David Silver, Primary Analysis Scientist at DeepMind, Professor at College Faculty London.
  • David Fahri, Lead Researcher, Open A-I
  • Natasha Regan, Actuary at RPC Tyche, Chess WIM, co-author of “Recreation Changer”

Sounds From:

Jeopardy 2011-02:The IBM Problem

Garry Kasparov VS Deep Blue 1997 sixth recreation (Kasparov Resigns)

Qbert Stage 1 Gameplay

Assault Like AlphaZero: The Energy of the King

Synthetic Gamer

Miracle Best Anti Mage 16/0 – Dota 2 Professional Gameplay

DOTA 2 – ALL GAME-WINNING Moments in The World Historical past (TI1-TI9)

Jeopardy pronounces Watson Problem


This episode was once reported via Jennifer Robust and Will Douglas Heaven and produced via Anthony Inexperienced, Emma Cillekens and Karen Hao. We’re edited via Niall Firth, Michael Reilly and Mat Honan. Our combine engineer is Garret Lang. Sound design and tune via Jacob Gorski.

Complete Transcript:

[TR ID] 

[SOT: Jeopardy announces Watson Challenge]

Trebeck: Nowadays we’re saying a Jeopardy festival not like anything else we’ve got ever offered sooner than.

Jennifer: Ten years in the past, the tv quiz display Jeopardy unveiled a brand new participant…

Trebeck: It is an exhibition fit that includes two of the best jeopardy gamers in historical past… their challenger? Smartly, his title is Watson. 

Documentary Announcer: [music] Watson is an IBM pc designed to play Jeopardy. Watson understands herbal language with all its ambiguity and complexity.” 

Jennifer: And most likely now not unusually… for the reason that enjoying Jeopardy is the item it was once designed to do… Watson was once excellent. In reality excellent.

[SOT: Montage of Watson Jeopardy answers.]

Trebek: “Watson.”

Watson: “What’s istanbul.”

Trebek: “You’re proper.”

Trebek: “Watson.”

Watson: “What’s parlement.” 

Trebek: “Proper.”

Trebek: “Watson.”

Watson: “What’s historical greek.”

Trebek: “Watson, again to you.”

Jennifer: After 3 nights of this, Watson received… beating the 2 easiest gamers within the recreation display’s historical past… From chess to Jeopardy to e-sports… A-I is thrashing people at their very own video games… (so as to discuss)… however that was once by no means without equal purpose. Researchers are looking to construct clever methods which are extra helpful and normal goal than anything else we’ve got.

David Silver: If the human mind can remedy a wide variety of various duties, are we able to construct techniques that may do the similar factor? 

Jennifer: I’m Jennifer Robust and this episode we dig into the symbiotic dating between video games and A-I. As a result of for so long as there’s been A-I analysis, video games had been part of it. We meet the massive gamers within the house… and we take a travel to an arcade. 

{Recreation sounds}

Karen Hao: In some way, video games have over-hyped AI functions slightly bit, as a result of..

Jennifer: That’s my colleague Karen Hao… 

Karen Hao: A large number of other people now imagine that AI is a lot more succesful than it in truth is, however video games are in truth an indication of extremely slim intelligence. And we are now roughly trapped on this cycle the place AI analysis is particularly happening this trail of increasingly more complex video games with out in truth going to increasingly more complex, advanced real-world scenarios, environments…which is what we in truth want.

{Recreation sounds}


OC:…you will have reached your vacation spot.

Julian Togelius: Video games had been part of A-I since A-I began, or like for the reason that very thought of A-I began.

Jennifer: Julian Togelius is a professor and pc scientist dwelling in New York Town… 

Julian Togelius: I paintings on A-I for making video games higher and in addition video games for making A-I higher. 

Jennifer: He’s giving me a historical past lesson in this dating between video games and A-I… and by some means, he manages to do it whilst additionally enjoying a couple of video video games that he’s been running with.

Julian Togelius: I in particular paintings with the video video games and type of fashionable video video games as a result of in point of fact chess and Pass and all that… I imply, we are type of executed with that. It is like, I imply, [laughter] to not discourage those that like enjoying chess and prefer enjoying Pass or poker for the psychological problem. That is high quality. However , there are such a lot of extra chances, such a lot of extra attention-grabbing demanding situations within the different video games.

Jennifer: How did you get into this box?

Julian Togelius: Yeah. So when my mother gave my cats away, [laughter] It is true! I imply, she, she were given allergic and so what are you going to do? So she gave me a pc sooner than a Commodore 64, and I began enjoying a lot of these video games and I were given in point of fact thinking about those little, little worlds. After which I grew up… neatly, kind of. [laughter] Uh, I grew up, I stopped highschool. I began finding out philosophy and psychology. I used to be considering, how does the thoughts paintings? What’s the dating of awareness and intelligence and the way does all of it come about? 

Jennifer: Those questions introduced him to an early paper via the pioneering pc scientist Alan Turing… He was once the primary to end up that construction a pc was once even mathematically imaginable.

Julian Togelius: That paper is in large part about video games. It is concerning the Imitation Recreation, what is now known as a Turing Check, the place you attempt to inform whether or not anyone you are speaking to necessarily – it wasn’t known as chatting within the fifties – whether or not anyone you’re speaking by way of textual content to is a pc or a human. It is usually about chess. As a result of chess turned into very early on a core center of attention of man-made intelligence analysis.  

Jennifer: We predict of people that play chess as having a definite stage of intelligence … and so the sport turned into a method to gauge how clever machines are too. 

And… a laugh truth? The first actual chess enjoying program was once written sooner than a pc even existed to run it. Turing performed it in 1950…the use of an set of rules labored out on paper.

(It didn’t paintings rather well.)

However other people persevered to advance this analysis for many years.  

After which, in 1997, I-B-M’s Deep Blue pc beat Garry Kasparov… the reigning global champion of chess. 

[SOT] – Deep Blue beating Garry Kasparov in Recreation Six by way of YouTube

Commentator 2: Are we lacking one thing at the chessboard now that Kasparov sees? He does now not glance.. he appears to be like disgusted actually.  

Commentator 1: Whoah! 

Commentator 2: Deep Blue! Kasparov, after the transfer C4, has resigned!


Julian Togelius: And this was once an enormous highbrow match other people had been considering, k, what now? Did we simply remedy synthetic intelligence? And it seems that no, you did not as a result of this chess enjoying program could not even play checkers with out important reprogramming. It could not play Pass. It could not play loads of issues. And much more, it could not tie its shoelaces. It could not cook dinner macaroni. It could not write a love poem. It could not cross out and purchase a newspaper. It could not do any of this stuff that people do always. It in point of fact may actually do exactly something. It would play chess. It was once rattling excellent at it, however it would in point of fact handiest play chess. 

Jennifer: So, people had solved what was once believed to be the most important problem of making intelligence… however while you regarded below the hood of this system… he says It was once necessarily simply one of those seek.

Julian Togelius: What if I take this transfer? After which, what if my adversary takes this transfer, then what if I take this transfer? So we might constructed a tree of chances and counter chances and calculated from that. It was once in truth a lot more sophisticated than that, however that is the middle of what it was once doing. And other people checked out it like, this does not look like anything else like how our brains paintings. I imply, we do not in point of fact understand how our brains paintings, however, um, no matter they’re doing, it is not this. [laugh]

Jennifer: However it’s not JUST used to play video games towards people… A-I displays up in video games in all types of tactics.  Particularly to cause them to extra attention-grabbing and difficult.

For instance…. A-I adjustments portions of video video games…  in order that they are other each time we play them, and that is the reason been the case for the reason that 19-80s.

Julian Togelius: And this theory of, like, at all times developing one thing new… and each time you play the sport it is new… has survived into a large number of other video games. For instance, the Diablo sequence of video games is according to that, or the Civilization sequence of technique video games. Each time you play it you will have a fully new global and that is the reason core to the sport. It simply would not be the similar when you did not do this. 

Jennifer: One more reason to try this is on account of garage… and he says a recreation known as Elite turned into a very powerful milestone… when it was once made to be had for private computer systems, together with the Commodore 64. 

Julian Togelius: It could not perhaps are compatible in reminiscence on this pc. So one model had 4,096 other famous person methods. Now, when you handiest had 64,000 bytes of reminiscence and believe, bring to mind how little this is, that is a millionth of a pc you’ll purchase these days. So, they needed to recreate the famous person machine each time you were given there. Mainly construct it up from scratch.

Jennifer:  And that’s nonetheless the case now. Certain, we’ve got a lot more garage. However video games also are a lot, a lot higher and extra advanced. 

Julian Togelius: The sport of No Guy’s Sky, which got here out 2016, however they maintain updating it – it assists in keeping getting increasingly more spectacular. It has extra planets in it than it’s worthwhile to ever talk over with in a life-time, however it by some means all suits to your pc as a result of they’re recreated each time you spot them. 

Jennifer: In the meantime, researchers have additionally persevered to construct recreation enjoying A-Is… and Togelius says, one of the vital subsequent demanding situations in that house shall be for them to play many video games without delay… as a result of multitasking is one thing people do neatly…however that’s now not but the case for those methods.

So, how will we get from those extremely structured environments with loads of predictability… to one thing nearer to genuine lifestyles, which is messy and chaotic and in no way predictable.

To him and different researchers…? We play extra video games.

Julian Togelius: If we had a machine that might reliably play, like with some talent, the highest hundred video games on a pc recreation best listing, like Steam or the AppStore or one thing, then we’d have one thing similar to normal intelligence. 

Jennifer: So, in many ways… we’re nonetheless roughly the place we had been a part century in the past… considering we may simply to find the important thing to normal intelligence with A-I methods that may beat people at their very own recreation. 

[beat / music]

However we additionally combine video games and A-I in all types of different ways…love to lend a hand us with coaching knowledge.

A couple of years in the past I met a staff at Princeton looking to make forestall indicators extra recognizable to self-driving automobiles… the use of the sport, Grand Robbery Auto. 

Unusual as that may sound… it’s in truth beautiful sensible while you believe simply what number of alternative ways a motive force may come throughout a forestall check in the actual global… be it on a stick within the floor… striking within the air… or painted at the pavement… and we stumble upon them in each roughly gentle and climate… occasionally partly hidden via tree branches… or the darkness of night time. 

Researchers may cross on the lookout for examples of a lot of these forestall indicators… or video video games can simply generate never-ending examples.

We’re additionally the use of video games to raised know how algorithms make selections. 

[Start to bring in sounds from Arcade. *Frogger theme music and gameplay begins, toggle moves*] 

Jennifer: We’re at a vintage arcade in Boston… as it has a number of of those older video video games which are used to coach A-I methods. 

Will Douglas-Heaven: Hello, I’m Will Douglas-Heaven. I’m senior editor for A-I at Era Evaluate… And I will not play Frogger. 

Will Douglas-Heaven: Frogger got here up reasonably just lately in some other A-I analysis the place they had been looking to get an A-I to give an explanation for itself and provide an explanation for like what it was once doing. Um, and so they taught… they skilled an A-I to play this recreation and Frogger… You’ll be able to listen from the noise, I stay failing.

So Frogger is that this recreation the place you are a little frog down the ground and you have to move a highway that has automobiles shifting type of around the display left and proper , and you have to type of dodge between them. And you then get to a river and also you bounce at the again of turtles and logs to get to the opposite facet with out falling in like I did there. Um, anyway, so it is, it is a recreation which has were given like loads of particular movements you are taking at every step. And so once they skilled the A-I to do it, each time it took an motion, they were given it to give an explanation for in, um, type of, , human comprehensible phrases why it did that.

[*Game sounds continue*] 

Jennifer: Mainly, A-I performs the sport… and over the years, it really works out easy methods to be triumphant. Random strikes evolve into advanced methods… even some we did not find out about. 

[Continue games sounds underneath the VO above and also into this piece of audio]

Will Douglas-Heaven: They threw the AIs at those previous video games and simply confirmed them the displays that that they had no thought easy methods to play. It was once simply pixels on a display, stuff came about. They attempted issues and occasionally they blew up. Now and again they shot the alien ships. And the use of handiest type of rewards from once they did one thing, proper, the rating went up, they slowly labored out easy methods to play the sport. And so they went from working out, not anything to, in lots of circumstances, type of beating the top ratings of the most efficient human gamers. Or even some in point of fact cool examples the place they in truth discovered tactics to overcome the sport that people hadn’t found out.

Jennifer: One instance of this comes from a recreation known as Q*Bert, which places gamers on a pyramid of squares. 

Will Douglas-Heaven:  I imply the elemental thought is you have got this little man who jumps down the pyramid from the highest touchdown at the squares. And while you’ve modified the squares all to the similar colour, then you’ll transfer directly to the following stage. However the A-I, I feel at the first stage, modified all of the colours of the squares after which stored leaping up and down the squares relatively than shifting directly to the following stage. And it discovered some trojan horse within the recreation that allowed it to type of get an unlimited rating in in point of fact a brief period of time. Or even the designers of the sport had been like “ I have never observed that trojan horse  sooner than.” 

Jennifer: After the ruin… We’ll meet some pioneers in the back of main breakthroughs  on this box. However first, I wish to inform you about an match known as CyberSecure in November. It’s Tech Evaluate’s cybersecurity convention and I will be there with my colleagues. You’ll be able to be informed extra at Cyber Safe M-I-T dot com.

We’ll be proper again… after this.


David Silver: My title’s David Silver. I paintings on synthetic intelligence and I use it on video games. I paintings for a corporation known as DeepMind and our purpose is to check out and use, um, synthetic intelligence to check out and construct a machine, which has one of the vital smarts which are throughout the human mind.

Jennifer: DeepMind is on the middle of this paintings with video games. It’s a analysis lab that’s a part of Google’s Alphabet.

David Silver: If the human mind can remedy a wide variety of various duties, are we able to construct techniques that may do the similar factor? 

Jennifer: He’s the lead researcher in the back of one of the vital easiest identified A-I methods that  have mastered easy methods to play video games… beginning with board video games, (together with the traditional Chinese language technique recreation of Pass.) 

David Silver: We advanced a machine known as AlphaGo, which was once the primary program so that you could play the sport of Pass on the stage of best human respectable gamers. And actually, it was once in a position to overcome the arena champion Lee Sedol. 

David Silver: And there is this massive house of video games, lots of that have those gorgeous traits that let us to in point of fact simply dive in and perceive, , one piece of the arena in isolation with no need to take care of all the immense complexity of the actual global unexpectedly.

Jennifer: AlphaGo realized easy methods to play board video games according to how other people play.

Silver’s subsequent machine, AlphaZero, realized to play board video games and video video games differently… via studying the principles of a recreation after which enjoying itself over and over.

David Silver: After AlphaGo, we attempted to take your next step and make one thing much more normal, which was once so that you could play now not only one recreation, however many video games the use of the similar era. And it is a giant stepping stone as it in point of fact is making an attempt to do one of the vital issues which we, as individuals are in a position to do, which is remedy many issues, the use of the similar varieties of equipment inside of. 

Jennifer: It is a milestone in making A-I extra normal goal… However with a very powerful caveat. The set of rules can’t learn how to play those video games unexpectedly. It’s as regardless that it builds itself separate brains for every recreation. So it has to switch out its chess mind sooner than enjoying Pass. 

It’s protected to mention researchers are nonetheless making an attempt to determine easy methods to make video games a take a look at for genuine lifestyles. As a result of video games have regulations that may be outlined… and nobody in point of fact is aware of the principles through which the arena works.

David Silver: The arena is in point of fact a messy position. , it has got this extremely wealthy dynamics happening, a wide variety of main points in the best way that items transfer round. The way in which that the issues we see relate to the issues that we contact. There is simply this implausible richness and complexity to the actual global. And we will’t perhaps hope to handle that during the best way that folks traditionally have approached video games. So what we’d like is one thing which is able to perceive the arena for itself in some way that roughly understands the patterns in some way which turns out to be useful for it to make selections which are in truth significant in serving to to succeed in its targets. 

Jennifer: His newest undertaking is named MuZero. It excels at simply as many video games as AlphaZero… (in addition to an entire host of video video games). 

…however the program figures out easy methods to play with out being given any regulations in any respect.

David Silver: So it was once in point of fact simply let unfastened. It was once in a position to play video games towards itself. And all it were given on the finish of the sport was once a sign to mention, Hi there, you received or Hi there, you misplaced. And from that sign, it was once in a position to construct an working out for itself of the principles of the sport sufficient that it would in truth type of believe what would occur into the longer term.. And as soon as it had this talent to  believe into the longer term, it was once in a position to look and get started taking a look forward and get started considering into the longer term and announcing, aha, now I know how this global works. I will be able to begin to believe what would occur if I performed this transfer or took this motion. And in order that’s in point of fact a key step that we’d like and one thing we imagine is essential going ahead for the way forward for A-I.

Jennifer: He says it’s now not not like an toddler coming to grips with the arena round it… construction drawback fixing and artistic talents, over the years. 

David Silver: I feel we are already seeing examples the place, inside constrained domain names, that we see algorithms which are to all intents and functions, ingenious. I imply, what’s creativity in any case rather than, , the power to find some new thought for itself. And I feel that is the essence of creativity. The essence of creativity is what our algorithms are doing, which is to find step-by-step one thing new and to be told thru their enjoy that this new thought that they have got get a hold of is in truth one thing which is strong and which is helping it to succeed in its targets. So I feel someday, we’re going to see increasingly more creativity of this type. We will see, , machines that are in a position to find for themselves concepts that lend a hand them to succeed in targets. Now not as a result of an individual’s advised them, that is the item you wish to have to succeed in that purpose, however as a result of they figured it out for themselves.

Jennifer: And.. that creativity has led AlphaZero to find new issues about easy methods to play chess. Now…. human gamers are in truth adopting it in their very own video games … calling it.. “enjoying an alpha 0 transfer”.

[SOT: how to play like AlphaZero]

Host: “Welcome to some other version of Find out how to Assault lLike AlphaZero! I’m hoping you are prepared for these days’s lesson….”

Jennifer: That’s additionally taking place with e-sports… that are online game competitions which are continuously performed in entrance of a reside target audience… very similar to a wearing match… With a global target audience of just about part 1000000000 audience tuning in to look at their favourite video games performed via one of the vital easiest players on the earth. 

Right here too, A-I is being utilized in a host of how… like training equipment to lend a hand other people get well at enjoying… and (as soon as once more), researchers also are aiming to make use of e-sports to make their A-I methods extra clever…  

David Farhi: We are imagining that in the future there will be normal synthetic intelligence methods that may in point of fact remedy issues briefly, can be informed perhaps on the stage of people. 

Jennifer: David Farhi is a lead researcher at Open A-I… The analysis lab based via Elon Musk and a host of alternative Silicon Valley luminaries.

It created the primary machine to overcome global champions at an e-sports recreation. 

That recreation is named Protection of the Ancients 2, which everybody calls Dota 2… and there’s a brand new documentary about this win… known as Synthetic Gamer.

[Clip from Artificial Gamer trailer]

[Dramatic music and sounds from Dota 2 gameplay] 

Speaker 1: While you take a look at the sport of Dota, there’s 10,000 plus variables in each second that your machine has to absorb.

Speaker 2: The AI learns in an overly other method than people. 

Speaker 3: It performs towards copies of itself. Many, again and again off within the cloud..

Jennifer: Fahri oversaw the Dota 2 undertaking, known as the Open A-I 5… and he demonstrated the way it works at Tech Evaluate’s A-I convention, EmTech Virtual… 

[Sounds of Dota 2 gameplay via YouTube. [00:03 – 00:15] Fade in, then mattress below the next Farhi make a choice. *Sword combating, footsteps, and dramatic fight tune.*]

David Farhi: Within the higher proper nook of this display. We see an overly giant, zoomed out, view of the entire global of Dota, Within the decrease left nook there is one staff’s base. Within the higher proper nook is some other staff’s base. Every staff is making an attempt to transport their characters round, solid spells with their characters, assault the enemies and so forth to in the end invade and wreck the opposite staff’s base.

David Farhi: Those extra sophisticated methods like robotics and video video games have a unique really feel to them since you get an statement of the state of the sport, after which you select an motion to take. After which the state of the sport adjustments by some means, relying at the motion you took. After which you have got a brand new statement and you’ll select a brand new motion and this loop occurs over and over and over. And so it’s important to make selections that experience long-term penalties down the street. So the best way we do that is slightly easy. Conceptually a minimum of. We now have brokers that get started out enjoying utterly randomly. And we simply need to play them towards themselves, a clone of themselves over and over and over.

Jennifer: And when you’re considering this may take a in point of fact very long time with this kind of sophisticated recreation? You’re now not fallacious… however Open A-I’s talent to run it on 200-thousand machines without delay… is helping. 

Mainly… it’s in a position to realize about 250 years of enjoy in step with day.

And if the machine does one thing that works… it’s up to date to do this more thing… and if one thing dangerous occurs that doesn’t paintings, it does that factor much less. 

David Farhi: We began out with a restricted model of the sport. We had been sooner or later in a position to overcome our developer staff, which was once very a laugh. After which we added extra items of the sport. We went again and skilled for longer. And we had been in a position to overcome some amateurs after which some semi-professional people. Ultimately we determined to visit a big event that this recreation has..

[Sounds from The International 3 (Dota tournament) via YouTube. *Crowd cheering, sports commentators shouting excitedly, Dota gameplay.*] 

Sportscaster: It may well be their remaining stand. [inaudible]

Sportscaster: He is gonna attempt to center of attention everyone however there is such a lot stuff. 

Sportscaster: There is no extra clips to be had. Right down to about part HP. 

Sportscaster: 1 / 4 HP. A lion surrounding from each side! EKB! Sportscaster: They received the spherical! They are gonna do it! 

Sportscaster: The kings of the north! Alliance wins! They win TI 3. 

Sportscaster: The Alliance simply received 1.4 million bucks! 

Sportscaster: They’re your World 3 champions! 

David Farhi: So this recreation has thousands and thousands of human customers who compete in those  tournaments for massive prizes, which guarantees that we all know there are people who’re enjoying at an overly, very top stage of ability. In August of 2018, we took our agent to this event. 

Jennifer: Their AI performed towards two respectable groups that had already been eradicated from the event… and narrowly misplaced. However the next 12 months, with extra coaching, the A-I used to be in a position to overcome the previous global champions 2 – 0.

David Farhi: So OpenA-I 5 is skilled and not using a people within the coaching procedure, so it simply performs towards itself in those cloud servers again and again and over and over. After which after we wish to play it towards a human, we take a snapshot out of the cloud and play it towards the human, however we by no means feed that knowledge again into the educational procedure.


Jennifer:  However there’s nonetheless this query of whether or not video games can lend a hand us teach A-I to be extra helpful. 

Presently, we’ve got methods which are extraordinarily excellent at something. However we do not but have fashions that may do loads of issues without delay. 

As soon as once more, my colleague Will Douglas Heaven.

Will Douglas-Heaven: The trick goes to be, I feel stepping again from construction AI’s that, excel at particular methods or ways, or have an excellent workaround for this actual rule or transfer, , the type of factor that now we have been seeing in those AIs that may learn how to play video games. 

Jennifer: To in point of fact perceive the following level of this analysis… It could be useful to take into consideration the best way children play on a playground. 

Will Douglas-Heaven: They are now not enjoying a recreation that has any type of genuine set regulations. I imply, they will cause them to up as they cross alongside, however, , they are simply exploring, making an attempt stuff in and out an overly type of herbal and open-ended method. And there is no particular purpose that they are running against. And I feel it is this sort of method, which continues to be one of those play, that we are going to see, , in point of fact push issues ahead after we speak about normal intelligence. Deepmind, for instance, a couple of months in the past launched a digital playground. It is type of like a online game global known as X Land. And it is populated via a host of little bots. And the neat factor here’s that X Land itself is managed via an AI or type of like a video games grasp that rearranges the surroundings, rearranges the stumbling blocks and the blocks and the balls the little bots get to play with, and in addition comes up with other regulations at the fly. So, easy video games like tag or cover and search, and the bots simply need to determine, , easy methods to play the ones. what items in that digital global will lend a hand them to do it. And so they be informed normal talents like exploring, simply making an attempt stuff out And I feel this sort of open-ended exploration goes to be key for the following technology of AI. And it is roughly thrilling that the [00:09:00] subsequent wave of AI, the AIs which are going to be excellent at more than one issues, [00:09:03] We // nonetheless may get there thru video games once more. So video games are not going anyplace. Video games had been with AI for the reason that starting. And , it is great to peer that play continues to be most likely the easiest way of studying. 


Jennifer: This episode was once reported via me and Will Douglas-Heaven… and produced via Anthony Inexperienced, Emma Cillekens and Karen Hao. We’re edited via Niall Firth, Michael Reilly and Mat Honan. Our combine engineer is Garret Lang… with sound design and tune via Jacob Gorski. 

Thank you for listening, I’m Jennifer Robust. 

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